Very interesting. It made me think why people are afraid to die but not to be born, because we don't experience it. Although some people think they do by feeling or hearing things when they 'tune in'.
"It made me think why people are afraid to die but not to be born, because we don't experience it." ~ Anon'
Right. There is no anticipating being born; no one chooses it. One minute we're not here, and the next..::whammo::...we're here.
"Although some people think they do by feeling or hearing things when they 'tune in'."
And I would say that they are more likely tuned-in to their imaginations. I feel I'm being reasonable to dismiss that sort of thing out of hand until/unless it can be proven in some objective way. Personal experiences mean very little, considering that there are so many different and bizarre claims out there.
"I'll tell you it takes plenty of time to bring a child into the world LoL"
I'll take your word for it, and also, I'll assume your gender is female = )
"As long as it's not proven it stay's as a bizarre claim to me as well."
Yes, bizarre, and certainly extraordinary. And as it is said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Taking someone's word for it is very, very ordinary.
" ... or is being born to you when you grasp for air & give your first scream ..."
I'd argue that actual human life (despite all physical appearances) does not fully begin until the moment of self awareness - when we recognize we actually are a thinking individual human entity.
I know i'll take some heat for saying this, but for the fist few months I think baby humans are no more aware of themselves than any other animal down the ladder ... in fact, probably less so.
That's not to say that the procession - initial brain boot up sequence, if you will - doesn't move at an exponential rate. But i think it takes quite some time to "become" human in awareness of ourselves. But then we don't really have to now do we? We're not like buffalo, cows etc that evolution has forced to "hit the ground running" quite literally.
No one can say with certainty that a human does not recall its first moments outside of the womb or the first year or so ... but the vast majority (save for the few with the bizarre claim of ability to "tune in") have no recollection of anything regarding birth or a significant time period afterwards. For all intents and purposes, "One minute we're not here, and the next..::whammo::...we're here" is an accurate statement - and that "whammo" moment generally seems to happen some time after our first birthday.
I know i'll take some heat for saying this, but for the fist few months I think baby humans are no more aware of themselves than any other animal down the ladder ... in fact, probably less so.
I remember watching some PBS show or something years ago about early childhood development and they said that it wasn't until a child is about 18 months old that they become aware of "self". Before that, they often see themselves as just extensions of the parents (mom mostly).
"they said that it wasn't until a child is about 18 months old that they become aware of 'self'."
'Makes sense. And it isn't until 5 or 6 yrs of age they say that a child has theory of mind...i.e..can recognize that others can hold false beliefs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind
"Before that, they often see themselves as just extensions of the parents (mom mostly)."
Yeah, it's weird. Unfortunately, the earliest memories I have of my mom was taking a bath with her. I don't think there's a emoticon that can fully convey my emotions on that, so I won't try.
"but the vast majority (save for the few with the bizarre claim of ability to 'tune in') have no recollection of anything regarding birth or a significant time period afterwards."
It's back to the realm of things that cannot be disproved. Like it, or not, we share the planet with people who will look at you with a straight face and tell you that there are "past lives", and that, yes, some people can recall incidents that presumably took place before birth. A former band mate, now deceased, was one such individual.
On the surface, such beliefs may seem benign. Sure. But there can be implications when those same sorts of unfalsifiable beliefs tie into one's religion or spiritual beliefs. There's a problem when someone argues that a flippin' "zygote" is one and the same with a living, breathing human being, and that they know this because "God" decrees it. It's a slippery slope, of course.
8 comments:
Very interesting. It made me think why people are afraid to die but not to be born, because we don't experience it.
Although some people think they do by feeling or hearing things when they 'tune in'.
"It made me think why people are afraid to die but not to be born, because we don't experience it." ~ Anon'
Right. There is no anticipating being born; no one chooses it. One minute we're not here, and the next..::whammo::...we're here.
"Although some people think they do by feeling or hearing things when they 'tune in'."
And I would say that they are more likely tuned-in to their imaginations. I feel I'm being reasonable to dismiss that sort of thing out of hand until/unless it can be proven in some objective way. Personal experiences mean very little, considering that there are so many different and bizarre claims out there.
'One minute we're not here, and the next..::whammo::...we're here.'
I'll tell you it takes plenty of time to bring a child into the world LoL or is being born to you when you grasp for air & give your first scream ;)
'tuned-in to their imaginations'
As long as it's not proven it stay's as a bizarre claim to me as well.
"I'll tell you it takes plenty of time to bring a child into the world LoL"
I'll take your word for it, and also, I'll assume your gender is female = )
"As long as it's not proven it stay's as a bizarre claim to me as well."
Yes, bizarre, and certainly extraordinary. And as it is said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Taking someone's word for it is very, very ordinary.
" ... or is being born to you when you grasp for air & give your first scream ..."
I'd argue that actual human life (despite all physical appearances) does not fully begin until the moment of self awareness - when we recognize we actually are a thinking individual human entity.
I know i'll take some heat for saying this, but for the fist few months I think baby humans are no more aware of themselves than any other animal down the ladder ... in fact, probably less so.
That's not to say that the procession - initial brain boot up sequence, if you will - doesn't move at an exponential rate. But i think it takes quite some time to "become" human in awareness of ourselves. But then we don't really have to now do we? We're not like buffalo, cows etc that evolution has forced to "hit the ground running" quite literally.
No one can say with certainty that a human does not recall its first moments outside of the womb or the first year or so ... but the vast majority (save for the few with the bizarre claim of ability to "tune in") have no recollection of anything regarding birth or a significant time period afterwards. For all intents and purposes, "One minute we're not here, and the next..::whammo::...we're here" is an accurate statement - and that "whammo" moment generally seems to happen some time after our first birthday.
I know i'll take some heat for saying this, but for the fist few months I think baby humans are no more aware of themselves than any other animal down the ladder ... in fact, probably less so.
I remember watching some PBS show or something years ago about early childhood development and they said that it wasn't until a child is about 18 months old that they become aware of "self". Before that, they often see themselves as just extensions of the parents (mom mostly).
"they said that it wasn't until a child is about 18 months old that they become aware of 'self'."
'Makes sense. And it isn't until 5 or 6 yrs of age they say that a child has theory of mind...i.e..can recognize that others can hold false beliefs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind
"Before that, they often see themselves as just extensions of the parents (mom mostly)."
Yeah, it's weird. Unfortunately, the earliest memories I have of my mom was taking a bath with her. I don't think there's a emoticon that can fully convey my emotions on that, so I won't try.
"but the vast majority (save for the few with the bizarre claim of ability to 'tune in') have no recollection of anything regarding birth or a significant time period afterwards."
It's back to the realm of things that cannot be disproved. Like it, or not, we share the planet with people who will look at you with a straight face and tell you that there are "past lives", and that, yes, some people can recall incidents that presumably took place before birth. A former band mate, now deceased, was one such individual.
On the surface, such beliefs may seem benign. Sure. But there can be implications when those same sorts of unfalsifiable beliefs tie into one's religion or spiritual beliefs. There's a problem when someone argues that a flippin' "zygote" is one and the same with a living, breathing human being, and that they know this because "God" decrees it. It's a slippery slope, of course.
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