Over on the "Saved by Grace" blog, one of the contributors who goes simply by "lyn", authored a recent post entitled, "There is a generation that is not washed from their filthiness".
Okay, so this "lyn" person - someone who, best as I can tell, is a Calvinist/Reformist - wastes no time at all in pretending to know that which she cannot possibly know. What I mean is, we don't even have to wait for her to get into the body of her voluminous, mega-sermon to know that she is about to once again use her religion as a "license" to JUDGE her fellow human beings. How can we know this? Easy, because "lyn" makes it pretty clear that she is about to go on one such judgment-casting/aspersion-casting affront when she suggests that those of this generation who do not think like she does are "filthy". Nice, huh?
So, yeah, as we know, it is religion, and particularly religious "faith", that perpetuates/facilitates this sort of judgmental, invidious mindset. Now, while I understand that some (many? most?) nonbelievers opt for not rocking the boat, but instead, prefer to abide by a "live and let live" sort of mantra, there is a growing number of nonbelievers today who have simply had enough. Welp, I am one of those people, and I make no bones about it, not that this is any secret, or anything.
In any case, "lyn" the Calvinist confirms my suspicion early on.
She writes...
1. There is a generation of atheists, that neither fear God nor regard man; that say in their heart, “There is no God;” and vainly wish there were none.
Cling cling!! True, story!... I don't "fear God" for the same reason(s) that you don't fear the boogie man, "lyn". See, it's just not rational for me to fear something that I don't even believe exists.
As for what atheists "say in their heart", I don't know about anyone else, but my heart doesn't have vocal chords, ergo, my heart cannot speak to me, to you, or to anyone else. Nope, my heart, aka, my cardiovascular organ, pumps blood. That's it. My heart can't think, nor can it speak the human language.
But to give benefit of doubt, there's a chance that what was said was meant in a figurative or metaphoric sense, in which case, yes!...there are some gods that I "say in my heart" do not exist, and yet, there other other conceptions of "God" upon whose existence I am agnostic. The god that you (pretend to) worship, "lyn"? Welp, that is the former type of god.
In other words, "lyn", I know that your and John Calvin's conception of "God" is an impossibility, and therefore, I know that that god cannot exist, and therefore, it does not exist. And please note that I can state this with as much certainty as I can state that "married bachelors" cannot exist, and therefore, do not exist.
For just one quick example of how I arrive at this, I'm nearly certain that the Calvinist conception of the Christian deity is that it is "Sovereign" and has a "Will". If I'm correct on that character assessment, then said deity would necessarily possess the free agency with which to be "Sovereign" and to implement its "Will". E.g..to be "Gracious", to exact its "Perfect Justice", or maybe to be pleased that some people are bound for hellfire, etc. You know, the sort of things that your "God" evidently does as it sits around in the cosmos.
But in all seriousness, the glaring problem with this is that if the Calvinist conception of God includes a knowledge of the future set of events; and if this God was in possession of this knowledge "before the foundation of the world"(Ephesians), then "free agency" goes bye-bye. Yes, kiss it goodbye, "lyn", as an omniscient god cannot also be an omnipotent god, and vice versa. John Calvin claimed his god is both, and so, John Calvin was wrong. You are wrong. It really is that simple.
Lastly, I don't need to "wish", vainly, or otherwise, that "there was no God", thank you very much. Y'see, "lyn", what we "wish" is a point of zero practical value, aka, moot, simply because reality doesn't care what you, me, or anyone else wishes. Seriously. This is perhaps the most asinine of all the
This sort of mindset is plain preposterous. It really, really is. Imagine what you'd think if you overheard someone telling someone else, "Hey? Y'know what? I've always wanted to go skydiving without one of those clumsy, cumbersome parachute things, so today I think I'm just going to wish that gravity doesn't exist so that I can go skydiving without a parachute!!!"
Would you not think that this person was off his or her rocker? And yet, this is precisely how "lyn" and her Calvinist brethren sound when they say that we atheists "vainly wish there were [no God]". No sane person is going to "wish" something that they know to be true to not be true just so they can live recklessly or satisfy some other fantasy.
Arg. The stupid.....it hurts.
14 comments:
I used to frequently read and comment on her blog back in the "before time" myself. I was super into the hardcore Calvinist scene as you know. If you dig into her archives, you will learn that she was "delivered" from homosexuality.
"I used to frequently read and comment on her blog back in the 'before time' myself."
Hi,
As you may have guessed, I linked to her website via another Calvinist you've crossed paths with. While I've run into some staunch Evangelicals in all my time blogging, I must confess that it wasn't until I engaged a few Calvinist bloggers that I learned just how steadfast a person can defend a religious conviction. The odd thing is, it seems that the certainty with which these people hold to their convictions is inversely proportionate to how far they'll go to defend it. In any case, for some reason I just can't fathom you fitting that bill at all, but then again, perhaps this might explain while you're no longer a part of that outfit. It seems to me that operating under such a belief-system would require one to be callous toward the world and to exude an air of egocentrism...i.e.."God was gracious and saved me, me, ME! To hell with the rest of you filthy apostates!"
Curiously enough, their overall demeanor towards people who don't think like them always seems to match their conception of what "God" is. But in actuality, it's not "God", but they who are pleased that only the elect will see paradise and the rest will rot in hell, etc. They then project those sentiments onto their conception of "God". 'Funny how that works, isn't it? "God" always seems to agree with every denomination of believer, but no two denominations seem to completely agree with each other. Hmmm....
"If you dig into her archives, you will learn that she was 'delivered' from homosexuality."
Idk. If I dig around, then I'll be inclined to comment, but she doesn't allow comments that dissent from her own. Maybe if talk about how good Kate Upton looks on the cover of S.I.?....::evil laugh::
It took me all of 10 seconds to find lyn's "testimony" of deliverance from the gay lifestyle by searching google with 'saved by grace blog lyn homosexuality" (2nd result)
That said, what I read was absolutely disturbing and disgusting.
This one post demonstrates why you're "that type" and not the more passive "live and let live" type ... because, ... well ... lyn is, in a word, DANGEROUS.
In fairness, I couldn't read every single word of all the comments (I did read every word of the "testimony" ... but lyn is "all in" and the few counter posts that try to elicit some level of empathy to her former fellow LGBT's are met with a stone fist and a cold steel heart - no exceptions. She even sheds a self professed reverend with apparent delicious zeal.
It's this "any means to obtain the end" type mentality that clearly prompts boomSLANG to speak out against this type of "god's way - as I interpret it - or hellfire for all who oppose".
For my part, I guess I was "lucky" being indoctrinated in a moderate, almost liberal, brand of the Lutheran faith which didn't expose me to these hard line "mullah" types for the vast majority of my life - I think the majority of atheists, and theists for that matter, with similar exposure/indoctrination don't realize just how deep the rabbit hole goes and how zealous the hardliners can be. Even in christian circles, we saw these types as crazy people who twisted the scriptures for their own personal preferences ... but were a VERY small minority on the outer fringe of the fringe.
I don't know what the answer is - and I certainly don't have the eloquence, knowledge and experience to combat these types as boomSLANG does ... or even Alice for that matter. But these folks are becoming more visible over the last few years and I wonder if they're not growing in numbers. Don't get me wrong - the numbers demonstrate that there is an exodus from religion that cannot be denied - but I wonder if there isn't a small shift of those who can't let go of theism, the liberal moderate kind, that don't shift the other way and adopt a more hard line position - increasing those numbers while the overall "belief" numbers are dwindling.
In any regard - I'm resolutely on the side of skepticism/non-belief/atheism ... but I recognize I don't have the same extensive "tool box" to work from to combat these far out loonies. I guess there may come a time where my "tool box" will have to be sufficient if these loons start gaining political muscle. But I recognize that I certainly can't fight them where they have the high ground, and numbers i.e. on their blogs.
It seems to me that operating under such a belief-system would require one to be callous toward the world and to exude an air of egocentrism...i.e.."God was gracious and saved me, me, ME! To hell with the rest of you filthy apostates!"
Exactly, and the "callousness" (on the part of God, it seemed to me) vs. my basic concern for humanity was the straw that broke the cognitive dissonance and sent me on the path to freedom.
"Exactly, and the 'callousness' (on the part of God, it seemed to me) vs. my basic concern for humanity was the straw that broke the cognitive dissonance and sent me on the path to freedom."
Understood. Totally understood. And welcome to freedom, BTW, if I haven't said it somewhere else already. If I have, 'never hurts to hear it again I suppose.
"That said, what I read was absolutely disturbing and disgusting."
Isn't it absolutely mind-boggling?
"lyn is, in a word, DANGEROUS."
Correct. "Lyn" is to Christianity what radical Muslims are to Islam. She is claiming to know what she cannot possibly know, which, in this case, is how the creator of the universe wants her to deal with those in same-sex relationships, just as Islamic extremists claim to know how "Allah" wants them to deal with those in same-sex relationships, which, in case no one's heard, is to be taken atop tall buildings and THROWN OFF. This crap has got to stop. I'm really near the point of taking the position that if you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. In fact, I may already be there.
What's hilarious(or sad, I can't quite decide which), is that both sides have this mentality that if atheists were gone that their problems would be over. Wtf? Are you kidding me?
Isn't it absolutely mind-boggling?
On one hand, yes ... but at the same time, it really isn't. What IS terrifying is that the only thing keeping these folks from usurping power and devolving us into a theocratic dictatorship is ... (drum roll) ... secular law and the Constitution! What IS mind-boggling is the fact that they even consider bowing to mortal law at all considering how deep down the rabbit hole they've gone. In many ways, it seems they've "bought in" so utterly completely, that it almost seems impossible to attempt to reach them with reality. And yet - there is a growing list of former Evangelical Xian zealots whose castles were built on a foundation of sand, has washed away in totality. THe difficult thing is that it's always a different "straw" that get's pulled out that causes the whole kit and caboodle to come crashing down and get swept out to see leaving them stranded on the beach alone and naked, forced to rebuild their entire world.
So I guess it's not a futile effort to keep slinging truth and evidence at even the most zealous because we can't know for sure which reality based truth will create the avalanche. Like Smaug, the dragon from the "Hobbit", had but one tiny loose chink in his armor plates that left him vulnerable, if only by the most infinitesimally tiny percentage ... if we hit that "sweet spot" with the right truth at the right time - BOOM! "Down goes Frazier"
... both sides have this mentality that if atheists were gone their problems would be over
Ain't that the truth! What's frightening about this is ... both sides recognizes that the other equally holds contempt and disdain for apostates. This gives them a each a population to draw from to demonstrate precisely how their chosen deity mandates the disposition of these "despicable non-believers". It becomes a theological penis measuring contest to see which "god" (read: group of humans) can come up with the most outlandish, torturous and twisted "punishments" ... all while displaying what the other group of believers (in the "other"/wrong god) have in store for them should one group gain a significant advantage/power to implement their chosen theology.
What always struck me as "odd" was ... why do these human followers seem to think they need to mete out these "punishments" on non-believing/wrong-believing apostates? I mean - to hear them tell it - god has all this punishment business covered and can do it far and away much better than the mortals ever could ... but yet they seem to think it's incumbent upon THEM to "punish" these apostates here on Earth ... to "prepare" them for "punishment" in their god's realm?!? What is it that makes them think that god won't do it "right"? This point has truly mystified me and , to me, demonstrates just how LITTLE faith they actually have in their god to "handle" even the most simplest task? I mean, How does chucking someone off a roof top stack up to all the creative punishments an omnipotent supernatural creator of the whole flipping universe could develop and implement?!?
That, my friend, is truly mind-boggling.
"What IS terrifying is that the only thing keeping these folks from usurping power and devolving us into a theocratic dictatorship is ... (drum roll) ... secular law and the Constitution!"
But...but we're a Christian Nation, I thought?.....::snicker::
"It becomes a theological penis measuring contest[....]"
Oh, my goodness, that's rich. Good stuff. Maybe Howard Stern can set it up.
"god has all this punishment business covered and can do it far and away much better than the mortals ever could ... but yet they seem to think it's incumbent upon THEM to 'punish' these apostates here on Earth[...]"
It doesn't exactly exude confidence, does it? Yeah, my God is going to exact his "Perfect Justice" on EVERYONE except those he doesn't exact his "Perfect Justice" on, and you'll see what happens to those who mock God! Pretty soon. Okay, later on. Towards the end of your life. You know, after your're dead. Mark my words.
lmaao!!!!
Maybe Howard Stern can set it up.
It's unfortunate, should actually come to that ... that the Xians and Jews are at a distinct disadvantage due to the requirement by their version of religion to hack or chew off the end bits (shudder) ... maybe it makes em tougher in a street brawl?
I dunno ...
Sorry, "dick" jokes never get old ... nor are we never too old for them :P
"I dunno"
Right? It's a hard topic. Luckily humor is a good tool when it comes to this sort of thing. But it seems to me that a full penetration of the topic would probably point to the Christian god as the winner, because, you know, we're talking father, son, and ghost, here. I'm not sure Muhammad could hang with that. Then again, he's brown-skinned, so
:P
I'm not sure Muhammad could hang with that.
Hello? ... the Brutha has a flippin WINGED Horse that could fly in outer freakin space!!!
... but you may be right ... the ethereal Spirit might just be a bridge too far for Al, Mo and the Pegasus ... now if the Hindus come to rumble ... there'd be some serious restrategizing required
:D
"Hello? ... the Brutha has a flippin WINGED Horse"
It seems to me that the appropriate capitalization would be on "horse", not "winged". But yeah, I "get" ya.
"'Hey? Y'know what? I've always wanted to go skydiving without one of those clumsy, cumbersome parachute things, so today I think I'm just going to wish that gravity doesn't exist so that I can go skydiving without a parachute!!!'"
Brilliant! I've been away for awhile. It's good to be back. Great writing, as usual and it always makes me laugh.
When Christians ask me why I became an atheist, I'm always tempted to say, "Why, because I want to fuck all the dudes, of course, and I really do hope their isn't a god, otherwise I'm screwed--literally and figuratively."
"When Christians ask me why I became an atheist, I'm always tempted to say, 'Why, because I want to fuck all the dudes, of course, and I really do hope their isn't a god, otherwise I'm screwed--literally and figuratively'."
I tell 'em I became an atheist so I can hangout on Pornhub watchin' atheists like you in action = P
But seriously, if we really for one nano-second thought that Christianity was true and that the final destination for non-believers was a fiery pit in the center of the earth(or wherever the hell believers think "hell" is), who in his or her right mind would take the chance? This is why the "gravity" analogy is so very fitting.
Thanks for stoppin' by, and I'll leave you with a favorite quote:
No one is more afraid of hell than those who actually believe in it.
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